Thursday, May 14, 2009
If you are interested in what has transpired at HL Leasing please see the article written by Christopher Menkin on Leasingnews.org as it gives you a very good overview of what we know at this point. If you have other information or questions please post them on the blog entitled "new blog on John Otto" located on the left side of this page, and also directly below, as it has the majority of comments
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I also have been a long time investor and my life savings and retirment income. I am opting to join forces with TomMcCurnin which seems to have a history and has past experiences with leasing schemes, although the outcome may be grim, I will be in the front lines to hold Dan Ramirez, Andy and Norma accountable. Dan was a long time friend, I thought,but at this time, I can only pray for all of us and although this has an effect on many people involved, it is a time to gather our friends and families support and believe that there will be sort of justice and that there is a way to recover what has been a devastating situation. My prayers, thoughts and aloha goes to all of us/debdes/
ReplyDeleteWhy hasn't the Fresno Bee been more forthcoming with this story from the beginning of the week? It would have really helped the investors I am sure. My thoughts and prayers go to the inocent employees of Heritage Leasing, and to JOhn's innocent friends.
ReplyDeleteAnd it goes without saying, my thoughts and prayers go out to all of the investors who believed in John. He was a charmer and so good at this scam, you guys shouldn';t feel embarrassed-, he was slick
ReplyDeleteI have been an ivestor for a few years and I know others that have been investing for years.
ReplyDeleteThank you for posting everything you know!
Dan was such a good salesman, and he had us selling the program to all our friends an family.
ReplyDeleteWe've been in it for 10 years and some of us and friends are really hurting. God help all of us!
Please be aware that the link above to "leasing news" should read www.leasingnews.org, not ".com".
ReplyDeleteI have been with Dan over 15 years, this was all the money I had for my retirement. I am so upset, I guess like everyone else. I do not know what to do if I should do anything at all at this point. I e-mailed Tom Mc Curnin, and his first sentence was "I do not think you will revover anything" and the other lawyer wants $10,000 retainer. The money is gone, who has an extra 10,000 laying around.
ReplyDeleteYou are not alone. At this point I agree with Tom. Not sure if any "pot of gold" will be found. We can only hope that maybe between the assets and some money hidden in accounts we can maybe get back something. I hate the fact that I trusted Dan. He seemed like such a genuine guy. Always acted like he cared and we were friends. I asked him many times if this was something I needed to worry about and he always assured me it was good. That hurts very much. Will be hard to trust people going forward.
ReplyDeleteI have a few things to say about all this. Well see my step father got me in with these scam artists late 2007. However, my step dad who passed away early April, who also had hundreds of thousands+ wrapped into this scam. Well 2-3 weeks or so after my step father passed away I spoke with Danny R. AT LENGTH, about death and he rambled on about his sister, and never once had mentioned to me anything about Otto's stoke nor cancer, however, he was able to swindle me into believing everything AGAIN. My landlord whom also knows a lot about businesses and so on, said for me to contact Marc Miles, Norma Lewis, Danny and Otto to send me the company who is handing escrow, the sale and no reply, so i emailed it again, no reply. and then i get the news doe to my mom-in-law who thought the whole thing sounded suspicious and like a scam. I know we all have way too much to lose and I dont mean to burden anyone, I just dont know what I need to do in order to help. Please someone let me know, I am just soooo new to all this.
ReplyDeleteWhere the hell is OUR federal bailout?!?!?
ReplyDeleteI was invested for seven years and my boyfriend for almost twenty we lost well over a Million. I won't ever recover financially. I am so frustrated because I have no idea what we are suppose to do next. The FBI agent left me a message and told me they are mailing out a letter this week. I would imagine it is to confirm that it is a ponzi scheme. In order to file revisions on our taxes we have to prove that it is a ponzi scheme.
ReplyDeleteANYONE HAVE ANY IDEAS WHAT IS HAPPENING AT THIS POINT, DID WE REALLY LOSE IT ALL?
ReplyDeletei just realized that this blog has somewhat split off of the main group which you can access by clicking on "new blog on john otto" on the left hand side of this blog. Sorry for any confusion. There are 134 comments on the main blog
ReplyDeleteYes we lost it all - or rather it was stolen from us
ReplyDeleteIn reading all your stories it is a "crime" and a very add up of events. Dan is certainly a great talker and he assured me many many times over that I didn't need to pull my funds out. He certainly had to know what was going on. We need to unite with "unfortunate Investor: and try to see what Tom Mc Curnin team can come up with before you give $10K to the Fresno attorney , is he nuts most of us lost our retirement and all our savings a $10K retainer is out of the question/
ReplyDeleteif anyone of you needs to talk, I am available, as the these blogs are a good way to vent but sometimes a friendly voice, who certainly understands this crisis, I can't help ease the trauma,but if only just for a few minutes. My phone is 808-987-5205. I was one of those investors that some of you talked to over these past years, and I did encourage HL, my checks always came for many many years and this is just such a incrediable, heartbreaking time for all of us. I keep everyone in my prayers/
ReplyDeleteQuestion for "Anonymous 5/20/09 Invested 7 years"
ReplyDeleteDid you ever receive a letter from the FBI?
Has anyone else heard from the FBI?
Thank you and God bless us all. I am ashamed to mention the amount of money we invested. This will surely change our lives forever.
I could not find the article by Christopher Menkin on leasingnews.com. Can anyone point me to it?
ReplyDeleteMany thanks,
Marty
aloha marty,
ReplyDeleteIt is actually www.leasingnews.org and I believe that will get you there. You may also want to go up this page and on left side click on "new blog on John Otto" which will take you to the blog that has the most comments on it. hope that helps
I have not received any letter from the FBI. I called again and now the agent involved is no longer taking calls regarding HL investors. I am now waiting for a contact through family in hopes that it will help us all. If I have anything I will let you know. If it makes you feel any less shameful I had almost everything in there between my partner and myself it was over 1 million 1 hundred thousand. I feel very damaged and don't think I'll have the same secure feelings for my life.
ReplyDeletehello,
ReplyDeleteplease go up on the left side of this page and click on teh "new blog on John OttO" top get to the larger blog as it will give you more information
sorry,
ReplyDeleteI was in a hurry and mis-spelled most of my message--please go up this page and on the left side you will see "new blog on john otto". click on that and it will take you to the larger blog which has more information.
Some years ago I contacted Dan Callahan, Atty. to possibly represent me in a potential lawsuit. His fee structure was that I deposi$ 10,000 in his firms'account and, when his fees depleted that amount, I was to deposit a like amount. I declined. Since John Otto contacted Callahan just a few days before his suicide, could he have deposited a substantial amount of funds with him to be used to take care of his family? It's worth looking into.
ReplyDeleteWhere is everyone bloging at now?
ReplyDeletePlease go up to the left side of this page and click on "New blog on John Otto" as that is where all the comments are.
ReplyDeleteThe last item I see is dated May 23, I sure there must be something after that.
ReplyDeleteWhen you go to the new john otto page look on the upper right side and you will see "1-200 of 310 and "newest" Click on newest to get to the more recent comments. Hope that helps
ReplyDeleteMrs. Otto
ReplyDeleteListen to me very carefully why don't you tell the truth for once in your life. You hurt so many people by stealing their money. I want my money that my dad put in. That was my inherience from my father who worked very hard for it. You dan and the other crooks have ruined so many lives. Tell the truth for once in your life. You wouldn't know the truth if it was in your ugly face. We want our money. I don't want to buy fancy cars or live in a fancy house I just want to live period. You have ruined so many lives. because you are so greedy. I am just glad that my dad is not alive to see the mess that you, dan and your chicken husband created.
Merry christmas and a Blessed new Year to all.
ReplyDeleteBH
This really was an awful case. It's so sad to me that you just can't trust anyone any more based on implicit trust in their integrity. One would hope that you wouldn't ever need the services of a business lawyer to make sure everything in the business world is kosher, but unfortunately such precautions do have to be taken.
ReplyDeletewell one more "court system: with their jury choices NOT GUILTY on more time killing a 2 yrs old ...
ReplyDeleteCasy Anthony is NOT guilty,today in FLorida, OJ is not guilty in Californa of killing his wife and her friend, Well guess OTTO, Rameriz Norma, Ken etc. they all still NOT guilty and never will be , we can't even get the Queen of County Club living still,
stil not going to trail of course, not another delay...thanks Kathreen what I am guity of is been still pissed that this our justice system in this county SUCKS>
Well I find them GUILTY thanks again today for the lesson of our court system justice for all,
I am going to look for another country to live the last that I might have of my life lfet. this one is wrong
OJ... Casey... Otto, Matoff ...etc let us kill, rape and cheat and steal and I guess it is just ok in this country WEll I might be looking for anew country to find to live Is anyone out there still pissed off and angry? hope you are not I have blessed them all, forgave them all in my time but this is just not right sorry to vent but since I lost my home, my family my job and friends you can listen me vent or delete.
aloha DEB again Casey Anthony is NOT guilty ????
well one more "court system: with their jury choices NOT GUILTY on more time killing a 2 yrs old ...
ReplyDeleteCasy Anthony is NOT guilty,today in FLorida, OJ is not guilty in Californa of killing his wife and her friend, Well guess OTTO, Rameriz Norma, Ken etc. they all still NOT guilty and never will be , we can't even get the Queen of County Club living still,
stil not going to trail of course, not another delay...thanks Kathreen what I am guity of is been still pissed that this our justice system in this county SUCKS>
Well I find them GUILTY thanks again today for the lesson of our court system justice for all,
I am going to look for another country to live the last that I might have of my life lfet. this one is wrong
OJ... Casey... Otto, Matoff ...etc let us kill, rape and cheat and steal and I guess it is just ok in this country WEll I might be looking for anew country to find to live Is anyone out there still pissed off and angry? hope you are not I have blessed them all, forgave them all in my time but this is just not right sorry to vent but since I lost my home, my family my job and friends you can listen me vent or delete.
aloha DEB again Casey Anthony is NOT guilty ????
ABC-30 is trying to do a story on this tonight, in particular, the ruling against Kathleen Otto.
ReplyDeleteAnyone here willing to talk to us about the scheme?
Contact our newsroom at 485-0930 and ask for Karen or Shannon.
Thanks,
Corin Hoggard
Who is John Otto?
ReplyDeleteby Christopher Menkin
http://leasingnews.org/archives/Jan2012/1_13.htm#otto
Fresno Bee article. Widow ordered to pay.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.fresnobee.com/2012/01/10/2678522/widow-told-to-pay-1145m.html
The blog does not allow links.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.fresnobee.com/2012/01/10/2678522/widow-told-to-pay-1145m.html
you may have to copy and paste or search the Fresno Bee
Regarding Tax Loss issues, there is a recent IRS Revenue Proc. 2011-58 that modifies the Safe Harbor Rules to accommodate a situation where the death of a lead figure precludes criminal charges.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/rp-11-58.pdf
At this point with HL, the loss still does not seem to qualify for Safe Harbor Treatment as no receiver or Trustee for an asset accounting has been appointed - this should happen this year with the judgments against Ramirez, etc. Also I am not sure if the discovery year would be 2009 as it is the later of the year of death or date the civil complaint was filed - and I am not sure if the Class Action was filed before the end of 2009.
Whether this may allow investors to retroactively claim Safe Harbor treatment for 2009 by amending their returns is a big question. The Safe Harbor is an advantage as it requires much less substation or determination of the chance of recovering any money. Also in 2009, it was possible to carry back the loss for 3,4 or 5 years. For 2010 and 2011 and 2012 a theft loss can be carried back only 3 years. So could these new rules allow an investor to retroactively claim a 4 or 5 year carryback if a 2009 return is amended because of the new rules?
It would certainly be helpful to all investors having IRS issues, for the attorney handling the class action to provide information regarding a Receiver or Trustee for an asset search, so investors can claim the tax loss. At this point I do not think there is any doubt with the civil verdicts that this was a Ponzi scheme, however this verdict was not available in 2009.
ALOHA I NEED SOME HELP
ReplyDeleteWe are filing all the amended returns that the IRS has requested but I DO NOT HAVE the court ruling about the guilt of RAMIREZ FROM AUG 2011 NOR THE COURT RULING AGAINEST KATHLEEN?
PLEASE COULD SOMEONE FORWARD TO ME ....
ddj5454@gmail my home is 772 324 8732 Thank you and MAHALO again if you could help me/ddj
this is a test
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know if we filed under a carry back lost and received tax money back from IRS is it appropriate or would it even be worth looking into refilling under safe harbor as a ponzy ripoff ?
ReplyDelete